Can't Decide!

"Master Cylinder" (mastercylinder28)
03/22/2016 at 18:05 • Filed to: None

So, as many of you may already know, I am the owner of a 1987 944S. It’s got a bajillion miles on it and I’ve put a lot of time, sweat, and money into refreshing it and making it a reliable DD. The suspension is upgraded and all wear components like bushings, balljoints, tie rods, sway bar end links, etc., are brand new. It rides OK for a lowered, stripped-interior sports car with stiffer springs and shocks, and it handles very well IMO. I have no immediate reliability concerns with it, and I drive it every day, but it is old and it does have a lot of miles.

So, my long-term plan for this car has always involved refreshing the drivetrain. I have priced out a rebuild of the engine (2.5L DOHC) with a moderate power increase to 220-230 hp or so and it would be in the $5-7K range. Add a transaxle rebuild + limited-slip diff and I’m looking at up to maybe $10K all in. I have little doubt that the car would be reliable for a good long time after that, though.

Option 2 is something I’ve mentioned on here before, and that’s swapping in a modern engine. Of course, the LS-series V8 is a prime candidate but if I’m honest it’s not all that appealing for some reason. It’s not that I’m a purist, but to me, for whatever reason, the V8 just doesn’t seem to “fit.” It is a fully-supported swap, though, and I have no doubt that I would be able to accomplish it in my garage.

However, the engine I’d really like is another one of GM’s, the 3.6L LFX V6, as found in the 2012-2015(?) Camaro and other assorted GM products. From what I have read, it weighs less than the original 4-cylinder, and because it’s a V6, would concentrate that mass farther toward the center of the car. Power isn’t anywhere near what an LS can produce, but no one in their right mind would call a 323 hp engine in a 2700 pound car slow . But, I can’t find any dang info on the thing. External dimensions are nowhere to be found, so I don’t know if I can even fit it in the 944's engine bay. I think it’s narrow enough but otherwise I have no idea. This would probably be the most fun option, if I can pull it off.

The 944 in question

Option 3, which has started to pester me more and more, is to sell the 944 and buy something different. I’d love a Focus RS but my finances can’t support it. Most likely, I’d end up in a lightly-used Focus ST. This is probably the most “reasonable” option and would certainly make my wife happiest, but I look at the price tag of even a busted ST with a salvage title and high miles and see that it would be thousands cheaper to rebuild the 944, whichever option I choose.

Still, the lure of something new and different is hard to resist. I probably need to go test-drive some of the cars I’ve considered to see if I even like the way they drive compared to the fully analog experience of the 944.

DISCUSSION (34)

fourvalleys > Master Cylinder
03/22/2016 at 18:13

What’s your family situation? As always, I’ll suggest the Fiesta ST. Here’s one that was listed on eBay for $11k OBO with a rebuilt title. That’s pretty crazy for an incredible car. If you can live with the size (I prefer it), it’s a much more fun car than the Focus.

But of course I think you should go with the LS swap. Just sayin’.

Chasaboo > Master Cylinder
03/22/2016 at 18:16

Bro, your car has bulges. Real, live, bulges. Stick with it. It will only get more valuable.

Master Cylinder > fourvalleys
03/22/2016 at 18:18

I’m married but we have no kids and plan to keep it that way. The 944 has provided adequate utility for the past few years, but a bit of extra space and the ability to carry a couple friends would be nice too. I haven’t sat in a Fiesta, but as a 6'3" 240lb guy, I guess I assumed they’d be a little cramped. I may have to try one out. As you can tell from my current choice of car, I do favor small and lightweight, and the Fiesta definitely has those covered compared to the Focus.

Master Cylinder > Chasaboo
03/22/2016 at 18:20

That’s not a bad point, actually. I paid $2500 for this a few years back (although I’ve put at least that much into it again in repairs and upgrades) and even in that time frame prices have gone up. There’s no way I’d ever find another at that price.

PorkchoPlissken > Master Cylinder
03/22/2016 at 18:22

You should test drive something to find out, but it won’t compare. Not saying one is better than the other (though I do have a preference) , it’s just that they’re hard to compare, like apples and okra. Don’t lose the 944 though, you’ll wish you hadn’t.

Sweet Trav > Master Cylinder
03/22/2016 at 18:23

As much as I love LS swaps, in all forms. But the LGX and 3.6 motors are an aftermarket nightmare. Either do an LS swap, Or perhaps an LTG 2.o turbo swap. 260/260 with peak torque at 1800 RPM. both are well supported swaps in the aftermarket.

Master Cylinder > PorkchoPlissken
03/22/2016 at 18:24

Yeah, I can’t imagine there’s going to be much out there that’s relatively new that is even somewhat similar (at least not that I can afford). I’m kinda hoping I go test drive some stuff, end up hating it, and then at least know I’m making the right choice by keeping the 944. I definitely love the car and it’s built up a lot of sentimental value, so letting it go would be tough for sure.

MM54 > Master Cylinder
03/22/2016 at 18:24

If you do decide to sell the 944 (which you probably shouldn’t) let us know, depending when it is (also where you’re located) I may be interested.

Master Cylinder > MM54
03/22/2016 at 18:28

Definitely. (I’m in the Detroit area) I’m leaning toward keeping it, but the lure of shiny new things is, well, the lure of shiny new things.

That's gonna leave a mark! > Master Cylinder
03/22/2016 at 18:28

Only you can answer the question because only you know exactly how you feel. For a car lover, the decision is not about dollars and cents or reliability but those factors do influence a decision.

If you are really just ready for something new (don’t hate the 944 but the bloom is off the rose) then option 3. You will find a way to make it work. Again, only you know how far your eye wanders.

If you are still totally in love with the car now and really wouldn’t want to change anything about it - Option 1

If you love the car but the thought of a few extra ponies makes you smile and your palms start to sweat a little - Option 2

My only thought that an LS swap would make the car something that it is not now. I’m sure it would change the character of the car, and probably require other upgrades to handle the weight and HP.

If it was me I would go with the small V6 upgrade.

E92M3 > Master Cylinder
03/22/2016 at 18:36

I would buy a first gen Cayman before I put $10k into a 944. Unless I was prepping it for SPEC 944.

Master Cylinder > That's gonna leave a mark!
03/22/2016 at 18:37

Well put. The thought of that chassis with a high-revving, lightweight 300+ hp V6 makes me all wiggly. The V8 is a great motor but weighs more than the stock motor and I have been pursuing a simple, lightweight build so far. I do like the character of the stock engine, but I’m sure most people on here can relate to the desire for more power.

Master Cylinder > E92M3
03/22/2016 at 18:39

That is one thought I’ve had. I’ve never tried a Cayman but I have driven a Boxster in anger. I imagine they’re similar. I liked the Boxster but I was kind of cramped inside and I didn’t feel like there was as much feedback and involvement as I get in my 944.

That said, I certainly wouldn’t kick a Cayman out of my garage. That flat six sounds so good.

d15b > Master Cylinder
03/22/2016 at 18:41

This car sounds well sorted.

Option 1!

MM54 > Master Cylinder
03/22/2016 at 18:42

I know all about the lure of new and shiny things!

(Looks at 124 abarth)

Detroit’s only a couple hours away so keeep me/oppo in the loop. Like I said, I don’t think you should sell it (or do an engine swap unless the existing one is toast), but if you do...

lone_liberal > Master Cylinder
03/22/2016 at 18:44

If that’s your DD I don’t know that an engine swap, especially one that’s not well supported with parts and online experience, would be a good idea unless you can go multiple weeks with it not running. In the end, though, you are the one who has to decide what works best for you.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Master Cylinder
03/22/2016 at 18:48

I’m 6' and 260 and I fit fine, even in the Recaros. I didn’t believe the hype, then I drove one. I plan on buying one in a couple of months. Also, there seems to be a bit of buyers remorse with the FoST, less so with the FiST.

TractorPillow > Master Cylinder
03/22/2016 at 18:53

I recently got a Cayman S. My dad has an ST. The Cayman is worlds better than the ST. Unless you need the space, Cayman is definitely the way to go. I haven’t driven a base Cayman, but I imagine it’s still fun - just don't get the tiptronic crap. That ruined Caymans for me for 3 years; then I decided to give a manual one a shot and that clutch and shifter is phenomenal.

Master Cylinder > lone_liberal
03/22/2016 at 19:02

In the warmer seasons, I’m mostly on my motorcycle, so I could deal with the 944 being laid up for a couple of months during a swap. The engine itself is fairly well-supported, but parts to make it actually go into the car don’t exist and would have to all be custom-made. So, yeah, you have a good point that it might punt the 944 out of reliable DD status, at least for a time while everything is being sorted and all the bugs are being worked out.

Master Cylinder > d15b
03/22/2016 at 19:05

Thanks! It is pretty well sorted mechanically. Aesthetically, well... the interior is stripped although I did reupholster the seats, so those are at least in good condition. The paint is OK but it’s got a lot of rock chips and dings.

I am starting to think Option 1 might be the most “rational.” There’s a clear path and lots of existing know-how to help make it happen. I can use off-the-shelf parts and I know the finished product will be reliable. It won’t be a 300+ hp terror, but it will still be a reasonably quick car with 220 hp and weighing 2600-2700 pounds.

d15b > Master Cylinder
03/22/2016 at 19:17

As I grow older, I appreciate “reliability” as a mod in-itself.

I am in the same boat. I installed all the bushings in an Energy Suspension Master set and the car drives like new. Hell, my alignment is nice and straight even though it is lowered.

No, it won’t be a 300 HP terror, but you’ll keep other cars on their toes, which is what you want in an older car.

Happy motoring!

Master Cylinder > d15b
03/22/2016 at 19:20

As I grow older, I appreciate “reliability” as a mod in-itself.

Truth. I can still get down and crawl around on cold concrete like when I was 19, but it’s certainly getting less and less appealing. I like turning wrenches, but it’s definitely nice when it’s because I want to and not because I have to.

66671 - 200 [METRIC] my dash > Master Cylinder
03/22/2016 at 19:46

If you’re considering a swap, maybe a BMW engine?

Either way 10k seems like a lot for a car that old, but if you love the car than by all means go for it.

Master Cylinder > 66671 - 200 [METRIC] my dash
03/22/2016 at 19:55

$10K definitely seems like a lot to me too. But it would also cost me at least that much to buy some of the newer cars I’ve been considering, and then I’d have someone else’s used car, with all the potential issues that brings. $10K into the 944 would make it basically a brand new car, as least mechanically. And realistically, that’s probably a high estimate with a fair bit of semi-exotic parts going into the engine. A more sensible build would probably end up in the $5-7K range.

66671 - 200 [METRIC] my dash > Master Cylinder
03/22/2016 at 20:01

Yeah I’d go for the rebuild, maybe after a while instead of engine swapping you could go with forced induction?

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Master Cylinder
03/22/2016 at 20:43

It sounds like you would like an RS but can’t afford it yet. Instead of going with a used ST, why not drive the 944 as is for a little while longer until you have sufficient funds for the RS? Or even a used RS (by then)? 10k is quite a lot more to put into the Porsche right now (option 1), but if you love it and want to keep it, roll with it.

Master Cylinder > 66671 - 200 [METRIC] my dash
03/22/2016 at 21:03

A low-boost positive-displacement supercharger would be fun... and could fit right where the alternator is currently. The alternator can go where the power steering pump used to be. :)

Master Cylinder > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
03/22/2016 at 21:07

I do love the 944. If I had space to keep two cars, this would only be a decision about what to do with the 944's drivetrain. Option #3 is mainly a consideration to convenience/my wife.

But yeah, you bet your booties I want an RS.

66671 - 200 [METRIC] my dash > Master Cylinder
03/22/2016 at 21:43

Kinja'd!!!

djgreenlava > Master Cylinder
03/22/2016 at 21:54

What's the most interesting modern engine swap on the forums for your car?

Master Cylinder > djgreenlava
03/22/2016 at 22:42

Basically the only popular one is the LS. A few brave souls have done other things like GM 3800 V6s, Ford Modulars, and VW 1.8Ts and VR6s, but most attempts tend to end in tears, it seems.

Master Cylinder > Sweet Trav
03/22/2016 at 22:57

Hmmm. 260/260 is good numbers. I’ll have to look into that engine.

djgreenlava > Master Cylinder
03/22/2016 at 23:27

Avoid the tears and dollars down the drain. That 3800 seems like GM’s other cost effective power plant to shoe horn into many cars.

Sweet Trav > Master Cylinder
03/23/2016 at 09:15

Actually the crate motor performs better than the early factory engines. 272/295 http://m.chevrolet.com/performance/cr…

But you are on the hook for an inter cooler and high pressure fuel system.